Comments for The Great Whatsit http://www.greatwhatsit.com The daily organ of the Northeast Corridor Social Club Thu, 17 May 2012 15:42:33 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 Comment on Shapes and beeps and rapture by Tim http://www.greatwhatsit.com/archives/17614#comment-69512 Tim Thu, 17 May 2012 15:42:33 +0000 http://www.greatwhatsit.com/?p=17614#comment-69512 Hyp-no-tized! Hyp-no-tized!

]]> Comment on Anxious racists are the worst by A White Bear http://www.greatwhatsit.com/archives/17610#comment-69511 A White Bear Thu, 17 May 2012 01:08:25 +0000 http://www.greatwhatsit.com/?p=17610#comment-69511 Here's a <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/16/opinion/nuns-on-the-frontier.html?_r=1" rel="nofollow">good op-ed about the long, long conflict between Catholic nuns and the Catholic church</a>. Here’s a good op-ed about the long, long conflict between Catholic nuns and the Catholic church.

]]> Comment on Anxious racists are the worst by Dave http://www.greatwhatsit.com/archives/17610#comment-69510 Dave Wed, 16 May 2012 22:15:15 +0000 http://www.greatwhatsit.com/?p=17610#comment-69510 We need generalizations to function. But as Thorn's example demonstrates, there are some times when it's appropriate to generalize, and others when it's not. "The black church" is a thing, for some purposes. For other purposes, it's a lazy and racist generalization. (Also, armor bearers? I had never heard of these things. Wow.) FPS: I think a religion like contemporary U.S. Catholicism is not a unitary "ideology." So someone can be committed to the church, or to a Catholic identity, for any number of reasons -- family history, community identification, commitment to a particular part of the teaching, commitment to an aspect of the liturgy or spiritual practice. And they can make the judgment that sure, Ratzingerism is terrible in many ways, but I'm committed to this church and I don't want to give that up, and Ratzinger can't make me. There's a whole subfield of theology called ecclesiology, and as I understand it there are many questions here that are totally contested. A sort of Protestant view, as I understand it, is that "the church" is not just what Ratzinger or the hierarchy says it is. At a certain point, yeah, it's an annoying game of No True Scotsman. But it's also complicated. We need generalizations to function. But as Thorn’s example demonstrates, there are some times when it’s appropriate to generalize, and others when it’s not. “The black church” is a thing, for some purposes. For other purposes, it’s a lazy and racist generalization. (Also, armor bearers? I had never heard of these things. Wow.)

FPS: I think a religion like contemporary U.S. Catholicism is not a unitary “ideology.” So someone can be committed to the church, or to a Catholic identity, for any number of reasons — family history, community identification, commitment to a particular part of the teaching, commitment to an aspect of the liturgy or spiritual practice. And they can make the judgment that sure, Ratzingerism is terrible in many ways, but I’m committed to this church and I don’t want to give that up, and Ratzinger can’t make me.

There’s a whole subfield of theology called ecclesiology, and as I understand it there are many questions here that are totally contested. A sort of Protestant view, as I understand it, is that “the church” is not just what Ratzinger or the hierarchy says it is. At a certain point, yeah, it’s an annoying game of No True Scotsman. But it’s also complicated.

]]> Comment on Anxious racists are the worst by Thorn http://www.greatwhatsit.com/archives/17610#comment-69509 Thorn Wed, 16 May 2012 19:27:18 +0000 http://www.greatwhatsit.com/?p=17610#comment-69509 I know I've said "black church" because sometimes it's useful shorthand, specifically when describing what my (black, raised-Baptist) partner wants in a church experience and the actual populated-by-mostly-queer-almost-entirely-black-people church we attend. I don't feel bad about saying things like "The black church has a history of having to make something liberating out of a narrative that's been used for oppression, so it makes sense that the queer people at are church are into some things (speaking in tongues and believing in a literal devil, making a big deal over the (female) pastor's wife as First Lady, having freaking Armor Bearers for the pastor) because that's what was in the churches that shunned them for their sexuality or similar things and so it makes sense that they might want to reclaim those traditions." I don't think that's exactly what you meant, but I've had to go through mental gymnastics every time I have said "the black church" and I don't think I ever say it without qualifiers, so I agree that it's a charged term. There just isn't always a better one. But yeah, saying "the black church" to talk about some kind of political or dogmatic unity is ridiculous, and I'm happy to offer up our congregation (and <a href="http://www.radicallyinclusive.com/" rel="nofollow">the others like it</a>) as an obvious counterpoint. I know I’ve said “black church” because sometimes it’s useful shorthand, specifically when describing what my (black, raised-Baptist) partner wants in a church experience and the actual populated-by-mostly-queer-almost-entirely-black-people church we attend. I don’t feel bad about saying things like “The black church has a history of having to make something liberating out of a narrative that’s been used for oppression, so it makes sense that the queer people at are church are into some things (speaking in tongues and believing in a literal devil, making a big deal over the (female) pastor’s wife as First Lady, having freaking Armor Bearers for the pastor) because that’s what was in the churches that shunned them for their sexuality or similar things and so it makes sense that they might want to reclaim those traditions.” I don’t think that’s exactly what you meant, but I’ve had to go through mental gymnastics every time I have said “the black church” and I don’t think I ever say it without qualifiers, so I agree that it’s a charged term. There just isn’t always a better one.

But yeah, saying “the black church” to talk about some kind of political or dogmatic unity is ridiculous, and I’m happy to offer up our congregation (and the others like it) as an obvious counterpoint.

]]> Comment on Anxious racists are the worst by FPS http://www.greatwhatsit.com/archives/17610#comment-69508 FPS Wed, 16 May 2012 19:12:11 +0000 http://www.greatwhatsit.com/?p=17610#comment-69508 (Do you ever have days where you can tell by your overinvestment in something you're saying that there's a better than even chance you're being unreasonable? I think I'm having that and should think about dropping the subject of religion, not a nexus of reasonableness for me.) (Do you ever have days where you can tell by your overinvestment in something you’re saying that there’s a better than even chance you’re being unreasonable? I think I’m having that and should think about dropping the subject of religion, not a nexus of reasonableness for me.)

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